To Boyd Duckett (and Kevin Short): I Disagree

On his two blogs (Boyd's Blog, Boyd's Biz Boyd Ducket writes a blog post entitled: "To Kevin Short: I agree" or at Boyd's Biz: "Dear Kevin Short — I agree with you"

Boyd is responding to Kevin Short's essay found on the blog Bass Parade entitled Short Challenges Duckett, All Elites

Boyd writes:
...But let me address another thing that Kevin said, because he made a great point. He said he would be happy if we, the pro anglers, could receive no information at any time about the bodies of water we’re going to fish. No help from locals, in other words.

I agree with that 100 percent.

I think a “no help rule” would be outstanding — a great thing for our sport.


I think Boyd and Kevin Short are 100% wrong about this. One of the greatest things about the sport of fishing, any kind of fishing, is that the sport is heavily built upon personal relationships. Ray Scott had it right in the beginning when he recognized that bass fishing could and should be a fraternity. Getting help from others when it comes to fishing is a feature, not a bug. It's a feature precisely because it builds relationships and community and isn't that what we claim is important? I believe a "no help rule ever" sends the wrong message to bass anglers everywhere. The flip side of you can't get help, is that it is wrong to give help. There is already too much of that kind of attitude when it comes to bass tournament anglers as it is now.

I've seen it on Facebook where Professional anglers due to "no info rules" have basically had to tell someone to shut up and keep it to themselves when offered a simple helpful suggestion. Shutting out others especially with the technology we have at our fingertips now is the wrong way to go, period.

I add more thoughts at Futurebass.com Forums...

My Thoughts On Six Idea's

BassFan Editor-In-Chief Jon Storm wrote an Op-Ed entitled "Upon the Cliff" where he threw out 6 ideas that he would like to see implemented by the new management at BASS and FLW.

Here are the 6 ideas and my thoughts.

1. The sport needs a unifying championship to survive. Period.

I guess a unifying championship would be OK, but I don't think it's something that is vital. Also I wonder exactly what Storm has in mind as there is a lot of different ways you can go with this. It isn't clear to me what a unifying championship would look like.

2. The sport needs a joint conservation, youth and legislative body to take on the antis and polluters. We must ensure there are players and a playing field for the sport in the future.

I view this one as another nice, but not necessary. It is not clear to me that having one big centralized initiative is better than having a diverse coalition of smaller initiatives of varying sizes.

3. Tours should be exclusive, not inclusive. Billy Joe shouldn't get to fish against Kevin VanDam, Skeet Reese or Brent Ehrler just because he's got a trust fund or a gas well in his backyard. Make it tough to get on a tour and demand a multiyear performance level to stay there.

On this one I think there are Pro's and Con's for both approaches. Obviously the Elite Series is more exclusive and the FLW Tour is more inclusive. I think there is room for both models.

4. The sport needs to ditch its focus on 1st-place payout and balance the payout down the field. Once you pay your dues to reach a tour, it should be a profitable or break-even venture to stay there. And fans simply don't care how much a pro athlete wins at an event.

I tend to agree with this point as I think it's something that will make the sport more sustainable for those trying to live the dream.

5. Outlaw made-for-TV events and formats, like the BASS post-season or the FLW Tour cut to the Top 5.

Obviously there are serious flaws with the BASS post-season that need to be addressed and scrapping the thing wholesale might be the answer. As far as the FLW cut to 5, I'm not really sure why he singled this out. Cut to 5, Cut to 10, Cut to 12 whatever cutting the field down makes sense to me.

6. Distribute house money fairly. As BASS stabilizes, it should use sponsor money to cut entry fees first, boost purses second. Same for the FLW Tour. But also, performance should dictate who gets FLW sponsor-team deals, not who you know, what you look like or which boat you drive. And FLW team money should go to tour pros only, not co-anglers.

I was right with this one until he advocated cutting out the Co-Anglers. As I've made clear on many occasions, I believe Co-Anglers are good for the sport. I think it is a feature that bass fishing has an avenue open for fans to fish with the Pro's while in serious competition. I think Co-Anglers should have a shot at incentives and a piece of the pie. This kind of gets to one of the Cons about making the sport more exclusive. I think as you make professional bass fishing more exclusive you limit the overall outreach potential of the sport. Kevin Van Dam can only be in one place at a time. More people are on the radar screen when you have an army of Tami Curtis's, Chris Ricci's, Matt Peters and Ashley Rae's. I certainly think more can be done to promote Co-Anglers and to get Co-Anglers out promoting themselves and the sport.

Minnesota Closed Bass Season, More Thoughts

As happens at this time every year there is a lot of chatter on Minnesocold fishing forums about our closed season for bass. Guys are upset that they see people out fishing for bass when they shouldn't be. And guys like me are upset that catch and release bass fishing is against the law to begin with. And yet other guys are quite happy with the way things are and don't want to see any change at all.

Fishingminnesota.com/hotspotoutdoors.com has an interesting thread this year discussing the closed season entitled "Bare with me" The guy who started the thread tends to favor keeping the status quo.

The question is asked:

Do you feel that there is a connection between our great fishing and having a closed season.. or is it more a matter of us having more water and less pressure than other states..


Personally I don't see a connection between great fishing and a closed season or even great fishing and less pressure. In Minnesota we are blessed with lots of water that features ideal habitat for bass and thus we have a robust bass fishery. If you look around a little you see that bodies of water like Kentucky Lake or Gunterville that have absolutely phenomenal bass fishing that is arguably far better than anything Minnesota can offer and they are bodies of water that have no closed season and have tremendous fishing pressure applied to them. What do Kentucky Lake and Guntersville have that allows those fisheries to be so good? The simple answer is good habitat for bass. If you have the good habitat, and we do, than nothing else matters because bass are a prolific species. I think this conclusion is pretty clear cut.

Towards what is currently the end of the thread someone floats the idea that Minnesocold should have a special early season bass catch and release stamp that people can buy that would allow them to pursue bass pretty much any time they want. I am 100% for the idea and would be willing to pay a significant amount of money for such a stamp. As it stands right now, I could care less if someone is fishing for bass in the closed season because I think it is a lousy law and I don't think any real harm is done. Put a price on it and allow catch and release fishing, then I would care about people fishing bass if they didn't pay for the privilege. I'm funny like that.

That's A Lot of accidents!!!

Minnesota has a closed season for largemouth and smallmouth bass and according to MN fishing regulations "You may not intentionally fish for any species during it's closed season." As you may know I hold this law in contempt.

Anyway I had a thought the other day, that touches on this issue.

I wonder just how many bass are caught in Minnesota by accident before the bass season opens? I think the number is probably is probably well over 100,000 and could conceivably be more than a million bass getting caught accidentally in the closed season.

The question then occurred to me, when something becomes a frequent occurrence at what point does it stop becoming an "accident" and instead enter the realm of being an expectation?

I think it is not so much an accident but instead is more of an expectation that out of season bass will be caught while fishing for panfish in the Spring. For instance when I fish at the GOMH for crappies I would be shocked if some bass were not mixed in with the crappies; It is the nature of the location both species are there schooled together. Growing up fishing for crappies on Sylvia/Twin lake in Wright County it was the exact same thing. You never knew if the next bite was a bass, crappie, or sunfish. I am sure there probably are places where you do not have such intense intermingling of species such as these examples. For instance the North end of West Rush Lake in Chisago County comes to mind. For some reason the panfish load in thick on that North end, but bass not so much.

If it can be established that it is an expectation that closed season bass will be caught by people after panfish than it is an awfully thin line that separates legal fishing from the illegal fishing of intentionally fishing for a species during it's closed season. If there is an expectation of something happening, than I would say there IS an intention to see that thing happen if you are engaging in the activity that brings the expectation. When you intentionally go fishing for bass there is always the expectation that you will catch them, whether you do or not.

Is it really possible to have an expectation about catching fish, without the intent too?

Bassmaster Classic: The Dream That Never Was

During this past Bassmaster Classic week I heard several different fishermen from Federation anglers to Elite Series pro's express the notion that fishing in the Bassmaster Classic was a lifetime "dream come true." A couple of times I heard it said that fishing in the Bassmaster Classic is the dream of all tournament bass fisherman. I must be an odd case then, because I can't say that fishing in the Bassmaster Classic has ever been one of my aspirations.

Growing up my family had a cabin on Lake Sylvia/Twin (now East & West Sylvia) near Annandale in Wright County Minnesota, which is about an hour and a half NW of Minneapolis; The two lakes are prolific largemouth bass fisheries. I was taught to fish at a very early age by my Dad, Grandmother Maas, and my Mom. Dad was my main fishing tutor and while he liked to fish, he was not overly serious about the sport, more of a casual weekend warrior type. Dad was much more serious about cars and Ham radio. Our fishing boat was late 1960's 14 ft Alumacraft with bench seats and a 5.5 horse Johnson motor. We also had a pontoon boat we would use for fishing. However, most of my early fishing was done off of our or our neighbors docks.

Of my 3 brothers and me, I was basically the only one to be badly afflicted with the fishing bug. I have just always loved to fish and we were up at the cabin frequently in the summer, so I got to go fishing often and as I grew older my love for fishing just grew and grew. My first exposure to fishing outside my family came from TV shows by Virgil Ward, Roland Martin, and Bill Dance. My first exposure to the Bass Anglers Sportsman Society probably came from commercials while watching fishing shows, but I also distinctly remember looking at Bassmaster Magazine at the Barber Shop in Annandale when I was probably around 8 years old. I remember thinking B.A.S.S. was the coolest thing and I wanted to join, but my parents didn't pursue it for me. I don't know when I was first made aware of tournament bass fishing, but I don't think it was until I was a teenager that I ever heard about the Bassmaster Classic and the information I heard about it was pretty scant. When it came to fishing I was much more interested in learning how to catch fish than I was interested in hearing about tournaments.

It wasn't until I was out of college and in my early twenties that I gave much thought to tournament bass fishing. In the 90's Lake Minnetonka used to be the site of a prestigious bass tournament called the Don Shelby US Invitational that drew in some of the big names of B.A.S.S.. The "Shelby" had a $50,000 top prize, which was big for those days. I was just astonished by how big a sack of bass it took to do well in that tournament. Sylvia/Twin is a peanut factory where 3lb and up fish are rare, and these guys were bringing in sacks with close to or over a 4lb average per fish. Also for the first time in my life I had cable TV and so I could watch the Bassmasters TV Show and I think I joined B.A.S.S. in 1993. In 1995 I went to see my first weigh-in ever at the Bassmaster Top 100 that was held on Lake Minnetonka.

I did not fish in my first bass tournament until 2 years later in 1997 when I was 27 years old; That summer I fished as a non-boater in 2 Military Bass Angler (now ABA) at Clearwater Lake in Wright County. I got skunked in my first tournament but did manage to catch a couple of fish on my second try. Looking back at it now, I had very little clue as to what I was getting myself into when I fished those tournaments, but despite the poor results I did enjoy myself and wasn't all that discouraged. In 1998 I joined The Fishers of Men Fishing Club (Twin Cities) which is just a fishing club, not a bass fishing club. It was not until I was 31 when I started fishing bass tournaments with any seriousness.

I think because I wasn't brought up with it and didn't start tournament fishing until well into adulthood is probably why the Bassmasters Classic for me is the dream that never was.

Does Bass Fishing Cost too Much?

Vagabond Persimmon Seed #21 $68.99

Yesterday on Facebook one of my friends wrote:
The economy continues to wreak havoc on the fishing industry but it seems people in the industry just don't get it. Come on $20 crankbaits, $70k boats! The average angler is being hurt the worst.

Several people clicked "Like" or commented in agreement. I ,however, was the lone dissenting voice when I wrote:

Sorry but I disagree, I think at no time in history has it been so easy to get quality equipment at a reasonable price thanks to the very large Internet inspired new and used marketplace.

I think at the outset it might be a good idea to make a distinction between an "average" bass angler and an "average" bass tournament angler because I don't think the Joe average bass fisherman is necessarily a tournament person. To be a tournament fisherman generally is going to require a financial commitment to equipment that is completely unnecessary for the basic task of having a good time by catching a few bass as a hobby.

For the guy that just wants to go out on a regular basis and bust a few bass it most certainly does not require "$20 crankbaits" and "70K boats." Any suggestion that this is the case is ridiculous. There is no doubt in my mind that right now and into the foreseeable future the average fisherman will be able to acquire quality equipment that will bring plenty of bass fishing success even on a tight budget.

I think the same pretty much holds true for Joe average bass tournament fisherman, because Joe average bass tournament fisherman is a club guy fishing for little to nothing beyond bragging rights, a trophy and maybe few hundred up to maybe a couple of thousand dollars at the high end. Bill Ludenia, who is a guy in my bass club, is a perfect example of a guy who has been a very successful bass tournament fisherman who doesn't see a big need to "keep up with the Joneses." He keeps it simple, fishes to his strengths and gets the job done.

To my comment someone replied with this:
Pretty hard to get a used BDS 4 spring craw. Used boats time is now but who has the cash, half price may as well be full price.
(Note a BDS is a Lucky Craft Crankbait that retails for $15-$17 depending on size, spring craw is a color pattern)

Well obviously is someone is dead set on getting a specific Lucky Craft crankbait, finding a good deal on it may not be possible. Heck the notion of "good deal" and Lucky Craft crankbaits is probably an oxymoron to the average Joe bass fishermen who probably gets bye just fine with a few Bandits or Bombers out of the bargain bin.

Owning a boat is nice but not a necessity. With the Internet it is easier than ever to get connected with people who have boats or find out about local opportunities to catch bass where a boat isn't even necessary. If you are in the market for a watercraft as long as you have a couple of hundred bucks you should be able to find something between Craigslist, Ebay, and local fishing forums.

Does bass fishing cost too much? No! Lack of money is not much of an excuse.

BP's Philosophy of MN Closed Bass Season

For those unaware, Minnesocold has a time from late February to late May, when it is illegal to not only keep, but even fish for largemouth and smallmouth Bass. The Minnesota regulation for fish "out of season" is this:

You may not intentionally fish for any species during its closed season.

Updated to add: The actual rule/law is 6262.0100 GENERAL RESTRICTIONS ON TAKING FISH Subp. 5.B Possession of fish while on state waters, which says:

"A person shall not angle for, including catch-and-release, or reduce to possession any species during its closed season."

I have all kinds of issues with this particular regulation.

#1 I think it is immoral for the state to make catch and release fishing with artificial baits illegal

I do not believe the state has a compelling interest in prohibiting catch and release fishing. Catch and release fishing has proven itself not to be harmful to a fisheries resource. If there is no harm done than the state should not be able to regulate against the activity, PERIOD! This regulation is a very mild form of tyranny that prohibits the God given freedom and rights of man.

#2 Any law or regulation that depends upon a subjectively derived "intent" for enforcement when it could use an objectively arrived at standard is bad law.

In other words, this law should not be allowed on the basis that it is vague. If the state is going to by default ban certain fishing techniques than they should be named, not left to be guessed at. Sure the regulation book would get bigger, but it would also get better because the CO would then have something that could be specifically and objectively enforced. To ban specific lures would show in fine detail that the regulation is indeed heavy handed and overly restrictive of an anglers freedom.

#3 The problem of cross species "targeting."

FYI-In Minnesocold this regulation is often paraphrased thus: "It is illegal to target an out of season fish."

Now any fisherman worth half his weight in twister tails and tube baits knows that fish of all shapes and sizes will bite a variety of the same baits. I've caught panfish on bass spinnerbaits, crankbaits, plastics and jigs. I guarantee that bass will bite on every lure designed to catch panfish; Add to this another fact any fisherman will know about how fish of all shapes and sizes will share the same habitat. Thus in the general area where there will be panfish there will be bass and where there are bass there will be panfish.

These two facts together bring us to the inescapable conflict that fishing for fish that are "in season" means you will catch out of season fish whether you intentionally try to or not. Still some people insist on the artificial notion that you can "target" your species outside of sight fishing for individual fish. The regulation is based on an angling lie that defies common sense and experience. If you intend to catch panfish you will undoubtedly catch bass as well. Therefore, everyone who fishes for panfish is in reality also targeting bass albeit for catch and release purposes. The logic of this reality is inescapable.

Caveat: Now it is true that you are more likely to catch a bass on a 1/2oz jig than a sunfish or crappie, but it is not necessarily more likely that you will catch a crappie or sunfish on a 1/32oz jig than a bass.

#4 As long as you are fishing for a species that is in season than it is allowable that you can catch and release fish that are not in season.

Point #4 follows on the heals of point #3. If targeting legal fish than one is allowed to catch fish that are not in season all one wants and still be fishing within the law. This is a loop-hole that shows the law is absurd on it's face. During the Bass closed season it is completely legal to intentionally fish for panfish and roughfish including dogfish. After the 2nd weekend of May a licensed angler can also intentionally fish for pike, and walleye. If you target a legal species and you catch bass as a "side effect" than your angling is on the up and up, otherwise all anglers fishing during the bass closed season are guilty of breaking the law.

#5 It is an economic injustice that fishermen of means can fish bass legally in the river or other states, while the fisherman without means is stuck without remedy for being able to angle bass.

The argument is made that fishing for bass out of season is inexcusable because other options exist for fishing bass legally by visiting the river where there is no closed season or other states where bass season is open. Obviously not everyone has an equal opportunity to take advantage of the other options due to financial concerns. The law should avoid creating such inequalities if possible and in this case the remedy is possible without negatively effecting the natural resource.

In summary I have 5 reason's why I find this regulation to be bogus.

Because of this regulation the conversation starts again every year. The self appointed defenders of all that is holy writ in Minnesocold Fishing Law get on their moral hobby horse and condemn all those that would defy the law as they see it.

...As the season gets closer to opener More and More boats and more and more fisher People Are fishing for Bass. (I’M TALKING ABOUT THE WALLEYE OPENER NOT THE BASS OPENER!!!!).how do they call themselves sports men in one breath and a outlaw in there actions . what is the boards view on Targeting fish that are out of season?

THANKS
Chisago Docksitter

My response to the Docksitter is that he should mind his own business and let other people mind their own business in return. A sportsman will do what he can to see this bad law changed. Those who know my history know this bass fishing out of season controversy is what contributed to the Banned Pastor, BP designation, as well as other various creative name calling.

The genesis of my passion for this issue goes back to me being falsely accused and harassed by some jerk when I was fishing for northern pike, not bass. My beliefs on the issue have evolved and strengthened the more I have thought about it.

Do I Cheat the Law?

I speed from time to time.

Ohh, you meant "do I intentionally fish for bass out of season?"
If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one there to hear it, did it make a sound? Unless I say something is my intent and actually mean it, there is no way to objectively gauge what my intent actually is on the matter. You will NEVER here me say that my intent is to catch a bass during it's closed season.

Also I do believe non-violent "civil disobedience" is a proper response in redress of bad government in an otherwise worthwhile governing system.

In addition to those considerations, at all times in the Spring while fishing during the bass closed season I have the very deliberate intent to catch a species that is legally in season whether that be panfish or dogfish. I believe this fact settles the issue once and for all. In reality I do not "cheat the law," because I am FISHING LEGALLY.

The only issue with some resonance from FM.com

It's not fair that the majority of us follow regulations

It is to some degree true that those who fish for bass before the season opens are doing something that is unfair to all other anglers. What they are doing is educating the fish which makes them harder for others to catch. Of coarse that means it's making them harder to catch for meat fisherman. Also fish that can be educated are desirable stock for the future of a fishery as well as for the section of the economy based on fishing. This issue is at best a push when larger questions are considered.

FYI-Permission is granted for anyone who wants to copy and paste this response all or in part to the WHAT ARE Sportsmen to do ? thread at FM.com

Now I must get back to my hunt for the state record dogfish.

Appendix FM: (A compilation of FishingMinnesota.com bulletin board threads on this topic that is if I can ever re-find the links now that the board has been changed and everything has a new url. Much of the time "Anonymous" is the Banned Pastor but not always)
"RE: Largemouth Bass"
"Whats With All The Talk About Fishing Out Of Season" (10 pages of comments)
Regulations... clarification?FishingMinnesota.com archives (I didn't actually participate in this thread where I was slandered)

"To bad all people who fish don’t have that attitude."
You don't like my attitude and I don't care for the attitude of the self-righteous chumps that presume a person is breaking the law or doing something wrong when they are not.

Did you see the thread "Basspoacher tries to strike again." Same place, same baits, same time of day and all I got was those crummy Crappies and Sunnies some of which I kept to eat (Yum Yum). Fishing is that way a lot of times and people who accuse others for "targeting" out season need to be a little more liberal with how they regard what is proper and what is not. People have gone out of their way to accuse me of breaking the law and being unethical so I go out of my way to be provocative on this issue to piss you Pharisees off.

When someones intent is to catch fish period and would be as happy with a bass as a crappie does not mean they are breaking the law or doing anything wrong. Cyb had a blast catching all those bass, but was disappointed that he didn't get any nice crappies or bigger gills. Had he fished the same spot a week later it looks as if the results would have been different from what I caught.

That's fishing.

excerpt from Keeping BASS Dilemma Fishing Minnesota archives (4 pages)

How many more days till the Bass opener?? (thread has 11pages, many of which contain BP posts.)

Seasonal Ethics